Topic: Autofire

What's everybody's stance on this?

Just wondering as I've seen a few videos of some scores where I beleive autofire has been used, not that you can prove it but I digress.

Just wondering what's everyone's view on it.

Posted by on 2017-10-15 16:06:40

Should not be allowed.

Posted by on 2017-10-15 16:45:34


Since I first made an account on this site, I've been very open and honest about scores where I utilized auto fire.  I'm not a bit surprised that another of these posts has popped up after a score of mine was accepted.  It's maybe the 3rd time it's happened.  I am perfectly fine with any of those submissions being removed.  I simply chose to let the community decide with their votes.  If Serious decided to ban auto fire, then I would fully expect all scores where I used it to be removed and I wouldn't be the least bit upset about it.  I do not consider those scores of mine to be legit and, thus, they would not enter into the discussion of being a record of any kind.

On a more personal note, this is one of the reasons why I never participated in IGBY.  The people who run those IGBY contests clearly state that it is not allowed.  I don't always use auto fire when I go after scores.  It depends on the game and how playing it affects my right thumb.

For the record, of my three recent accepted scores, I used the built in auto fire feature for MAME on 1941.  It is blatantly obvious to anyone who voted on it.  I activate it many times throughout the course of the game (you can see a tab at the bottom of the screen that denotes auto fire being turned on/off) and I even mention using it in the friggin' title.  Pretty transparent, I'd say.

I did not use it during my score run on Aliens.  It's not all that hard to get a lot of shots in with the Fire weapon and the game isn't as heavily reliant on movement as 1941 is.  I use the shoulder button on my controller and tap with my index finger.  The default weapon has rapid fire, probably because of how weak it is.

I'm on here for fun and to challenge myself.

Posted by on 2017-10-16 01:43:07


@bubufubu:

If Serious decided to ban auto fire, then I would fully expect all scores where I used it to be removed and I wouldn't be the least bit upset about it.

If that happened *before* a rule was implemented then I'd just let it go.  No biggie.

Posted by on 2017-10-16 10:40:56


@DarrylB:

I'm not aware of any rule regarding auto fire on here.  I've only seen discussions.

I'm fine with however people vote and whatever Serious has to say about it.  I'll keep an eye out for any new rules.  Aside from that, I'll keep submitting.  If a score doesn't make it because of auto fire, then so be it.  No worries.

And if anyone ever wants to know if I have used auto fire on a particular submission, then just ask.

Posted by on 2017-10-16 12:38:00


@Frankie:

Agreed, play by defaults which would means no Autofire, unless the game defaults to that. Those are the rules I've played by and will continue to play by. The autofire thing would explain some of Bubufubu scores I've seen on the site as well as scores on other sites. Let's take him up on the offer and remove the 1941 score at least wink

Posted by on 2017-10-17 20:14:51


Or at least shunt them over to a new [autofire] category :D

Posted by on 2017-10-18 00:13:48


@ILLSeaBass:

Yeah, if its an option in the game, it should be opened one with and one without. Think some games have that option. Don’t hope he have submitted recordings like that on MARP as there they have software that can detect it smiley

Posted by on 2017-10-18 00:44:53


Only if you have used wolfmame, wich is a mame version in breach of the whole Mame license.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 08:12:11


@Maxwel:

Not sure these days, but don’t think anything besides Wolfmame is allowed on MARP, but I think they can check all INPs no matter what MAME its made on.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 16:37:01


@Frankie:

I can verify scores there, and i dont have that program.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 17:46:39


@Maxwel:

Me to, but you need to be an Editor to have that program, not a confirmer. Had the program some years ago, but its very technically to use, very complicated laugh

Posted by on 2017-10-18 18:08:25


@ILLSeaBass:

Be careful about making a statement like that as you risk exposing your ignorance.

I have many scores on here done on consoles with original controllers.  And I certainly don't use auto fire by default when playing via emulation.  It all depends on the nature of the game and how much of that my right thumb can handle.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 19:30:58


@Frankie:

I have never submitted anything on MARP.  I don't even have an account on there.  This is the only site where I make any kind of official submission.  AtariAge only has friendly contests.  I have an account on TwinGalaxies but have never made a submission there, either.

What makes you think I would try to fool anyone on any site about my scores when I've been so open and honest on here?

Look carefully at the titles of my videos.  None of them are labeled as world records or records of any kind.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 19:44:12


@ILLSeaBass:

For the record, I have an 11 million point run of 1941 that doesn't include auto fire.  It was done live on Twitch and is saved on my videos page there if you care to take a look sometime.

It was too hard on my thumb and I haven't made another attempt since then.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 19:49:34


@bubufubu:

My ignorance? Come on dude, chill with the ego-trip. I wasn't calling you out, simply stating that I came across a few scores of your's that seemed suspect. I wasn't questioning your skills, you're obviously better than most. That was in reply of you saying you used auto-fire, which I am 100% sure is not cool on this site. Post your 1941 score here, I'm sure we'd all like to check it out. Peace.

Posted by on 2017-10-18 20:47:05


@bubufubu:

Where do I say you have done so? I just wrote I hope you haven’t submitted any of such recordings on MARP, might it be out of ignorance. I just say it should not be allowed, of course it shouldn’t. Its not meant to be played like that smiley

Posted by on 2017-10-18 22:53:40


@Frankie:

There's no point in mentioning it at all.  It only serves to make me look bad.  It's like me suggesting that you might be submitting runs on TwinGalaxies where you used cheats.

Posted by on 2017-10-19 15:52:49


@bubufubu:

Whatever, but please stop using autofire.

 

Posted by on 2017-10-19 16:39:23


@ILLSeaBass:

Having an ego about my skills or accomplishments is something of which I am almost never accused.  People who have consistently watched me on JTV or Twitch over the years know that I'm very humble and have often disagreed with those who've tossed superlatives my way.

When you type something like you did in your initial message, it kicks the door wide open for speculation on all current and future submissions of mine on here.  It's also not clear if "scores on others sites" is referring to me.  But since you only typed my name in your message, it becomes harmful conjecture.  I don't appreciate that becaue I have made a good effort to attain some credibility and be transparent with my entries.  It can lead others to think that I'm not capable of achieving very high scores in games without using turbo.

Be smart.  Take it score by score.  Don't assume that auto fire explains any of mine.  If it isn't detailed on here or the YouTube page, then simply ask.

When someone votes "No" on a submission on here, there are options such as "Rules", "Tactics", and "Cheating" for explanations.  What you won't see are the words "turbo" or "auto fire".  If using it was "100% not cool", then there would be a clearly stated rule and none of the runs where I use it would ever make it in.

There are plenty of arcade and console shooters that have built in auto fire or make it optional.  It's not as if it's sacreligious in the world of video games.  And it certainly does not simply make a game easy if you do use it.  In fact, it actually makes certain aspects of 1941 harder because it does significantly less damage than the charged up shot.  There's also a whole lot of precise movement involved if you want to rack up a lot of points.  Turbo has both positive and negative effects on movement.

When I got that no auto fire run of 1941, I already had a score on here that was higher.

Posted by on 2017-10-19 17:23:25


@Frankie:

You're free to vote "No" on any entries of mine where I use it, but please stop acting as if it's a rule on here when it's not.  It's just your opinion, Frankie.  Serious runs the site.

Posted by on 2017-10-19 17:29:15


@bubufubu:

All sites like this have one particular rule which is no cheating, autofire is cheating if its not an option in the game. Can’t be that hard to understand.

Posted by on 2017-10-19 17:34:20


@Frankie:

There is no universal rule when it comes to auto fire, no matter our opinions on it.  The line is still blurry, so you take it site by site.  This site does not have an explicit rule that bans it.  Period.

There are even first party (along with many third party) controllers with turbo features that date all the way back to 1987.

I'm happy to go along with whatever Serious says and however the users vote.  You do not run this site, so please stop acting as if your opinion is law.

Posted by on 2017-10-19 18:28:23


@bubufubu:

When you use Autofire, it kicks the door open to WAY WAY WAY WAY more speculation than anything I could ever say. And to clear the record, you stated "I've been very open and honest about scores where I utilized auto fire.." and I replied with "The autofire thing would explain some of Bubufubu scores I've seen on the site.". I don't get why you would come back and turn this around on as if I did something wrong. ??

You seem to be way more involved in the high score gaming community than most of us, and can't be that "ignorant" to knowing Autofire is cheating, and never welcomed on any these sites. I can only assume the majority of us here agree with the "unwritten rule" that Autofire classifies as cheating.

 

Posted by on 2017-10-19 20:22:48


Track auto fire on separate from auto fire off if off is the default setting. There’s a couple tracks already in the database like that. Arrow flash on the genesis/megadrive has entries for both.

@bubufubu, I was one of the no votes on your recent 1941 score, I left my reason and name in the feedback option. I went that route because I wasn’t looking to have a debate about it and was hoping some others would take notice to the auto fire

Posted by on 2017-10-20 09:31:13


@ILLSeaBass:

It's one thing to be unsure, approach with hesitancy, research, and even ask a user if he/she used auto fire on the page of a particular submission to educate yourself.  It's a whole other thing to be a bit of dick about it in the "Discussions" section.

"Some" of my scores, ILLSeaBass?  How many would that be?  You're using an open-ended word.  You're not mentioning any specific games nor have you clarified if "scores on other sites" refers to me.  Further, you oversimplify by only stating that auto fire explains ones where I have used it.  Auto fire alone?  Is it not possible to get scores that high without auto fire?  Did I just switch on the auto fire option and go run some errands allowing auto fire to play the game for me?  Have you taken into account the fact that I only use auto fire because of the condition of my right thumb?

Is it too much to ask you to have a little perspective and be specific with your future statements?

My experience has shown me that the line is still blurry when it comes to auto fire.  Discussions about it still persist to this day.  If it was as black & white as you and Frankie make it out to be, then it wouldn't be an "unwritten" rule, now would it?  And none of the submissions where I have used it would be accepted, now would they?  Hopefully, you see my point there.

Posted by on 2017-10-20 15:29:52


@derek:

That's fine, derek.

Asking me if I used auto fire (even though it's purposefully made obvious on that particular submission) isn't going to "poke the bear" or anything.  I'm perfectly fine with mature discussions about it.  There's nothing wrong with typing "I'm voting no on this because you used auto fire."  Cool beans and we both move on with our day.

But consider this thread.  Started by gazzhally right after my Aliens run (which does not involve auto fire) was accepted.  He previously held the top spot.  Add in what Frankie and ILLSeaBass have said and, hopefully, you can understand why I take issue.  You've been around and seen prior discussions, derek.  You know I don't have a problem talking about it and being honest.  It's the way these guys have gone about it that bothers me.

Posted by on 2017-10-20 16:10:35


Hilariously, two people visited YouTube and voted "thumbs down" on my latest 1941 video.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it happened either yesterday or today.

Pretty pathetic display of vindictiveness for whomever those two individuals may be.

Posted by on 2017-10-20 16:57:31


@bubufubu:

If you have a problem with that I said In that one comment, you are a bonkers. Jeez a sensible guy you are laugh

Posted by on 2017-10-21 11:13:57


@Frankie:

Sensible, yes.  Bonkers, no.  You may want to brush up a bit more on the English language if you're gonna participate in discussions.

And if you're gonna be a dick to me, then expect to be called out on it and treated the same way.  You get what you give.

Posted by on 2017-10-21 13:03:36


@bubufubu:

Well, I think you are the dick here.

Posted by on 2017-10-21 14:42:08


@Frankie:

You're the one who has tried to make me look bad by mentioning another site and using harmful conjecture to further speculation about my scores.

I'm not surprised that you are having trouble understanding that you've been a dick as your English is lacking.

Shouldn't you be busy voting thumbs down on all of my YouTube videos?  Because that's something a vindictive and petty dick would be doing.

Plus, you think your word is law on here.  It isn't.  Get over it.  It's not your site and never will be.  21 people voted "Yes" for my 1941 score.  If you don't like it, tough shit.  Gather all your friends together or create 4 other accounts so that you can vote "No" on all of my future scores.  Problem solved.  Now, kindly fuck off.

Posted by on 2017-10-21 16:04:37


@bubufubu:

I can guarantee you that I haven't voted on your You Tube videos. I will only vote no to your scores where you admit using autofire, or where it clealy shows.

That's it from me on this matter.

Posted by on 2017-10-21 16:42:15


I consider auto-fire to fall under the category of "controller advantages" and only accept it if it's normally part of the game, even using a controller which doesn't have a turbo button.

That's just how I vote and if it gets accepted anyway, that's just how the site works.  Maybe it can get eventually moved to a special chart, like other scores have.

I don't think anyone initially meant to insult anybody so let's keep it freindly & have fun!

Posted by on 2017-10-22 16:21:14


@S.BAZ:

In addition to the Autofire score for http://www.highscore.com/scores/ArcadeEmulatedMAME/1941/64226, he also has a 1943 MAME score that's appears to be played with autofire as well http://www.highscore.com/scores/ArcadeEmulatedMAME/1943/21634 (see video)

How has Serious handled these in the past? I know he wants us as community to handle things, but after seeing Bubu's insulting response to Frankie, It seems like a waste of time to assume he'll be a big boy and repost legit non-autofire scores. 

Posted by on 2017-10-30 13:39:37


@ILLSeaBass:

This is up to each of you, individually, to decide how to vote on these.

You are all free to vote Yes or No on any submission based on whatever criteria you feel is relevant, and I encourage you each to use your own judgement.

Posted by on 2017-10-30 22:45:17


@Serious:

That would work if we didn’t have so many users that just vote yes to everything to score points. If its not even mentioned most don’t spot it, and not all watch the videos. There should be a rule against it, or a rule that it should be opened as its own competition. Takes away all fair competition for those who wants to play the game the way its supposed to be played sad

Posted by on 2017-10-31 10:01:10


@ILLSeaBass:

It was you and Frankie who insulted me first, "big boy".  You get what you give.

Keep being an asshole about this all you want, but don't expect me to respond with kindness.

Posted by on 2017-10-31 15:58:34


The only exception if I were to use auto-fire personally, would be for the sake of comfortability. Some games are so damn demanding, that it eventually takes a toll on my hand/wrist physically. However, every site that I have an account with, or contests/tournaments I've played in over the years, always seem to have the same golden rule: no auto-fire. If the game has it built in to allow you the option of using it or not (by simply holding the button down), then that's about the only exception I can think of. Can't think of any games off the top of my head that utilize this, but I have played some where simply holding down the button activates an auto-fire feature in the game. It's not otherwise activated by going into the internal settings menu of MAME for example and turning that feature "on" or "off". I simply leave it off whenever I play my games and just get used to tapping away on the fire button. Now if Serious wants to open up an additional track to certain games where auto-fire can be used, then I'm ok with that. I just don't want to see scores done with and without auto-fire, both sharing the same high score table. Just my $.02.

Posted by on 2017-10-31 19:20:18


@Serious:

Sorry to get off the beaten path with this message, but @Serious, are you back in the game with regard to maintaining your site? If so, I've had 14 requests for new tracks and corrections to others since 11-13-16 that have still gone unanswered. Will you be the one handling this or deligating the duties to certain individuals? Again, sorry for deviating from the original message, it's just that I was very surprised to see you comment on this post after not hearing from you in any way, for at least the year that I've been a member to this site. Thanks! 

Posted by on 2017-10-31 19:33:07


@TheGalagaKing:

They very reason I use auto fire, in fact, has to do with comfort.  I have an issue with a tendon in my right thumb.  And anyone who has played enough shooters in their days knows that many of them can be very, very demanding.

I have no problem with a separate category for auto fire or if Serious decides to outright ban it.  I only take issue with people who are dicks about it.

Posted by on 2017-10-31 19:39:07


The only solution is to request an Autofire track and then resubmit in the default non autofire track a new score, played by default of course. It would then replace the old score when approved. That's how I would do it. But that's the issue on this site. Moving, merging, deleting scores seems not possible. Not even for Serious. I hope managing scores will be improved soon. Looking forward to it. This site has more 8bit scores than any other and it would be great if it would combine some game management things like they do in VGR or Cyberscore. Just my 5 eurocents ? Let's keep gaming on in a fair manner and don't be too rude on eachother. In the end it are just games.
Posted by on 2017-11-01 02:41:43


I am new here, but in my opinion, auto-fire should not be allowed.

Posted by on 2017-11-10 18:49:20